Information The voice of the people (General Feedback)

[Smarmy]

Alright so let me preface this post by stating I genuinely do care for where this server goes, and that I want to see it be much better. Alongside that I do not want this to be misinterpreted as me being "doomery" and basically putting a hitpiece out. Not the intent at all.

However, the state of things is not satisfactory. Which is putting it lightly. There are extensive issues when it comes to player agency, difficulty, and generally how people are able to interact and make their own stories.

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Firstly, I'm going to get my own personal issues out of the way here first. Namely with sidelining and player agency. I have played Doctor Kong extensively for a bit to encourage people to bring stuff for science rp, Attempted to have Rotfront as a whole story thing , pitched the idea (and name) of HORIZON to smarmy, and have tried pitching other misc ideas. Now you may ask why I've done these things? It's because I care for the storyline I've invested a lotta hours into, and I stepped in and applied for GM. All so people have fun moreso than myself, it's rewarding to have peeps have fun simple as.

To break down things, each of these has been more or less interfered with in negative ways on multiple ocassions. Let's descend down the list. Starting with:

Doctor Kong. Originally I had very little issue with this character until later. When incidents like the Xenicide transpired. I found that being on Dr. Kong wasn't exactly rewarding, and I consistently felt the feeling of being sidelined.

Further issue I've had with trying to get drive on Kong, was the introduction of characters like Thekla for the same niche as Dr. Kong, with more qualifications, suddenly coming in to take the important Doctor position. While Thekla's introduction alone wasn't anything crazy, she's just a character, but it led to there being a situation of me being at a disadvantage because I wasn't an admin. With Thekla basically being in a position of conducting RP better than Dr. Kong.

Another incident of note being with Judge (he who shouldn't be named) bringing her a Hunter. A hunter I played originally just to spook everyone until being unexpectedly killed, and the players themselves specifically saying "give it to Dr. Kong." Nobody really had issue with it, and nothing was gained ICly from it besides some rp. I was messaged OOCly after to cease this, which is something I understand because it's a slippery slope. However, during the pripyat map. Brought to my knowledge was an admin using a shocktrooper in a similar way to how I used the Hunter, and then using their Doctor to research the corpse of said shocktrooper. While I don't exactly know specifics I do know there wasn't a major fuss over this. Which has led to me feeling a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

This isn't meant to say "ADMIN CHARS BAD" or "I AM BEING PLOTTED AGAINST." However I wanna say it's been a level of me feeling sidelined. Whether or not that was intentional, and I don't believe it was, it's happened and I don't really feel drive to push further with trying to make rp.

Now, HORIZON. The antagonist faction against the rebels. I pitched the idea to smarmy back at the start of March this year of our lord 2025. Because I am, at my heart, a horrid combine player. I enjoy playing villains. I even expressed my interest to staff back when it was just RPF that I wanted my unit 49952 to be a bit of an antagonist against the rebs. Someone to hate. This didn't exactly pan out, sadly.

While I never went in expecting to be faction lead on Horizon, I expected to at the very least be empowered in going with that intended antagonist role. Considering I helped pitch the idea, and even helped choose the name of the group. My unit wasn't exactly empowered to pursue his antagonistic role, and I was kept at the lower levels of the organization. While I don't think rank matters, I think being empowered to pursue character goals DOES matter.

Another issue that arose with Horizon was I had to forcibly put the Rotfront thing on hiatus. When it was meant to be an antagonist group against them, because I intended to intertwine Monika and 49952 in their overall plot. I was told "no", and was more or lessed forced to negotiate away a whole storyline just to even have my horizon character.

Let me apologize if any of this comes across as rude, because as stated prior, it's not the intent. Running factions and stuff is by no means easy, I mean goodness I've done it too many times in the past and really it's a frustrating experience. Also like, would I have realistically made a difference in how Horizon panned out? I don't know, and I doubt I really would've had it be that much better. However the frustration stems from the fact I didn't get to really do anything, or contribute beyond like just sitting around in the bunker for 15 minutes because I got pinged.

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Moving on from my personal experiences on this matter. Player agency is a huge issue that should be addressed. I'm noticing a lot of moments where combat has a lot of spongey enemies, and rounds end up getting shrugged off. This is actually quite understandable in some cases where you don't want people to progress too quickly, but the current rate at which this has been used is not exactly good.

I've noticed a good amount of griping from some peeps just because you'll have clearly laid out pathways that are meant to be path of least resistance so the event goes smoother type stuff. Which is fair! However then this very path will have downright tanky enemies that are just able to have total awareness and elite battlefield conduct 24/7. Nobody is expecting a walk in the park if its war, but there's definitely a better way to conduct things.

Speaking of.

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Here's the part where I'm gonna mention ways to make things better. Obviously this isn't gonna be a fix all but it's recommendations to help better the server. Because again as I stated I genuinely do care for things, and I want things to be better. I'm not gonna be like some TnB user and just say a bunch of shit and not at least pitch in.

So! Recommendation one:
Work with peeps. I've noticed that while staff are told to help people with their stories, and help develop them, I don't exactly see much communication from either side. So, let's have something like more open-ness to people pitching ideas. Storyline recommendation threads for people to spitball some ideas, and generally communicate with staff. Let people pitch some event ideas easier via the auth boards. Just stuff to encourage more communication and storyline planning. It can go a long way and help people feel valued on their characters more.

Recommendation two:
Combat roleplay ettiquette needs to be really pushed. We shouldn't be relying on ballistics charts, lore on how strong the cyborgs are, or how much aura a character has. People should be able to go forward in combat with "oh man this'll be such a cool maneuver to pull off." not "how many fucking shots is this soldier gonna take". Less tanky enemies in conduct is definitely a huge thing to push for.

Recommendation three:
When fixing factions like Horizon, the Conscripts, the Combine. Reach out to the players. See what they wanna truly see in these factions. Ettiquete, vibe, etc. Obviously not every detail should be decided via feedback but it's a good way to start shaping things in a way people enjoy. Also, delegate the leadership to peeps in the playerbase. You got some trusted people who would be more than happy to pitch in and run events and run these antagonistic groups. It helps things be way more organic.

To close, I didn't want to write an essay length post on "SERVER SUCK HERE WHY". Which is why I tried my best to proofread this and try not to be mean. I hold a lot of frustration towards current issues, but I wanna turn that frustration into productivity. I wanna see us succeed and have fun. A better path IS possible.

I appreciate you bringing this to my attention. I will admit I've been somewhat neglectful with the faction. I do want to confirm that I am trying to make changes. They should come after the SFS. You're welcome to offer ideas here or anywhere else. The same goes for anyone else.

I think my overall mistake was I was hyper paranoid people would dislike the faction or relate it to really annoying intelligence squads. By the time I figured out these issues people lost steam in the idea.

I reach out to every new GM saying they're welcome to run ideas by me. I know I sent you the same message. I also give great liberty to them to run their ideas. There is a culture where even as super admin I run my ideas by other admins, and sometimes players. My concern with Rotfront is that I wasn't told anything about it. I still have little to no idea what your long term goals are. That is why I was very hesitant. It's hard to know if it would fit well. In the Horizon group chat I've even asked for ideas or help and gotten little to nothing. I don't want to make any excessive hostility but I feel like this could have been avoided by reaching out.

 

I do want to make it clear I offered you a promotion in DMs and you accepted it. I want to make it clear I had tangentially come to a similar idea at roughly the same time. I did my best to include your feedback and that's why you got to name the squad. I let you as a means to thank you for letting me bounce ideas off of you. I want to be clear I did a lot of work myself and completely by myself. I gave it to the rest of staff for extensive feedback and even asked you for some too. You're welcome to ask for it at any time, and I'll even post the document publicly if there's enough concerns.

I'll post my plans of what I do to change things once I have appropriate time to think it through thoroughly.

If you have further concerns let me know here or in DMs.

 

[NaughtyNick]

I did enjoy ZombieRP a lot better. Not saying that the current iteration is bad, it's just that there is only so much you can do with the HL2 material and it does feel rather repetitive with some combat or events, along with the setting being more or less in the woods for the past few maps. The HL2 material has been so stretched out. OTF aren't very great villains as there is no actual character substance to them. Brain-fogged elite killing machines with no emotion. I've been having more fun interacting with characters during down-time than actually going to combat events at this point.

If you guys need faction ideas, I can give you some pretty good ideas to work off. But like the person above this post said, I WOULD like some sort of say in how the faction is ran to make sure it doesn't turn into just another standard group. Doesn't mean I have to literally run the faction, just that I can easily be in the conversations regarding such.

I do also feel like the "targets" and stuff get recycled. Just constantly "yada-yada Combine structure" with no in-game lore or interesting little reason for what the facility is doing, why it's doing what it's doing, and some other information. Like the bunker which seemed like just a standard dungeon and that's it. With that, I don't really see the impact on the greater world (at least the region or sub-region at a minimal level) of the progress we've made.

Back to my main point:
I won't say too much or write an essay. I've been so disassociated with the HL2 setting and generally only stuck around from a sort of loyalty and general enjoyment of roleplaying with a smaller group of generally above-par role-players. When we ended the ZRP iteration, I thought honestly you guys were going to keep the same idea but in a different location in the world or some other twist to the story. I thought you guys did really well regarding the ZRP stuff. The music played during key points along with general regular passive, the setting, the villains, the characters, etc. So it is sort of sad to see you guys step away from that to move to HL2 but I do understand that some of the folks higher up did want that. Felt like some of the creativity and "umph" was lost in the translation to HL2.

I'd rather something different than HL2 since I feel like sticking with that will just end up with repetition or things OTHER servers have already done.
Honestly I'm just an old roleplayer who has been around the scene a while so truthfully I've already had my fill of HL2.

Think we should look to servers like Begotten in terms of exploring different settings instead of sticking with the whimpering system of Outland HL2RP. I'm sure the admins and the event runners will have a lot more fun having more creative freedom into their lore and events than trying to stick to the rather restricting stuff HL2 has, and in turn the players will find a lot more enjoyment in playing those events and in general the server.

Went off on a bit of tangent that truthfully probably will just be noted and forgotten. I get that. Since I'm sure HL2 is something you guys wanted to do in the first place. But SINCE you asked for player feedback, there is mine.

(Also small note: I really enjoyed Mickee's small little story updates with a posed scene and the music after major story beats in ZRP that he posted on the discord. We should probably bring that back. It's a nice little thing too just update players who may have missed an event or even just to read honestly.)

 

[NaughtyNick]

ALSO - seems like there is a lack of communication between players and staff given some of the responses to this and other comments I've seen in discord or in game. Think this post is a pretty good start to see what people are thinking.

DM me on Discord if you want to chat to whoever sees this and the post above. I'll give more explanation on there if you truly want it.

 

[Smarmy]

I did enjoy ZombieRP a lot better. Not saying that the current iteration is bad, it's just that there is only so much you can do with the HL2 material and it does feel rather repetitive with some combat or events, along with the setting being more or less in the woods for the past few maps. The HL2 material has been so stretched out. OTF aren't very great villains as there is no actual character substance to them. Brain-fogged elite killing machines with no emotion. I've been having more fun interacting with characters during down-time than actually going to combat events at this point.

If you guys need faction ideas, I can give you some pretty good ideas to work off. But like the person above this post said, I WOULD like some sort of say in how the faction is ran to make sure it doesn't turn into just another standard group. Doesn't mean I have to literally run the faction, just that I can easily be in the conversations regarding such.

I do also feel like the "targets" and stuff get recycled. Just constantly "yada-yada Combine structure" with no in-game lore or interesting little reason for what the facility is doing, why it's doing what it's doing, and some other information. Like the bunker which seemed like just a standard dungeon and that's it. With that, I don't really see the impact on the greater world (at least the region or sub-region at a minimal level) of the progress we've made.

I agree with this on you completely. I had a similar talk about this in private with some other staff and players. It's pretty difficult to do so I hope I can reach out to you for feedback. I'm starting to get writers block on most things and I'm trying not to burn out so I would appreciate if I could rely on people from the community. Anyone is welcome to send me ideas for AWS nodes.

I 100% agree they're getting kind of stale.

ALSO - seems like there is a lack of communication between players and staff given some of the responses to this and other comments I've seen in discord or in game. Think this post is a pretty good start to see what people are thinking.

DM me on Discord if you want to chat to whoever sees this and the post above. I'll give more explanation on there if you truly want it.

Sure will do that now I appreciate it!

 

[Smarmy]

I would like confirm there are talks in private about bringing back the RPF. If anyone has ideas they're welcome to reach out to me.

I think it would be good to have non-admins leading the if its brought back.

The goal was to do it POTENTIALLY after the SFS, but I might just try to iron out the idea. I'm pretty bogged down IRL so anyone reaching out with ideas would make my life easier.

 

[Tyrex]

<snip>

I think everything you posted is a valid concern except I will disagree with you on combat. Being someone who has played as the 'enemy combatant' a few times now it's a really frustrating experience. You're always extremely outnumbered (which is fine), but that's part of what leads to trying to be a little more tanky, but even then most of us end up dropping pretty easily when we play them because we don't want to be a burden and apparently there have even been complaints in the past about enemies being too hard, which I've never agreed with. I'll be honest, I know everyone loves their characters, but when we're expected to roll over and die from a bullet whizzing past us yet nobody on the rebel side gets even grazed from a mag-dump of a pulse rifle it's not fun. Every gunfight should be a risk, every bullet a chance at death. In the beginnings of the server up until the Commander's death, there was reconnaissance, intelligence gathering, planning, plotting, then execution. All to avoid the worst happening - and even then, it still did sometimes because combat is deadly. It feels now that the gang is just running towards an objective and hoping to outnumber them and that's about the extent of the planning and I honestly think it should be punished because that isn't realistic nor does it help with RP at all and instead feels like a rush to get through the AWS instead of enjoying it (to me).

 

[Smarmy]

I agree that we need to bring back reconnaissance. I pushed it pretty hard for the 626 map. I REALLY like running it too. I just feel as if I get lukewarm responses to it. I'm curious how to better get you to engage with it. I would push for it more ICly, but I realized it burns me out heavily.

Would you guys like to see 626 styled recon things?

For those who don't know I made dedicated efforts to script out patterns for enemies to run through.


/ev 4:30 PM this happens
/ev 4:40 PM this happens.

..etc

It was good because it would give you guys PLENTY of stuff to do before and after the AWS.

I DO WANT TO BRING IT BACK!

If you want to do it shoot me a DM and I'll get something ready. TBH it reminds me of the fun part of ZRP where I got to watch you guys figure out novel ways to sneak through a city.

It should make things more engaging. I was just under the impression no one wanted to do it anymore.

 

[pants]

I will disagree with you on combat. Being someone who has played as the 'enemy combatant' a few times now it's a really frustrating experience. You're always extremely outnumbered (which is fine), but that's part of what leads to trying to be a little more tanky, but even then most of us end up dropping pretty easily when we play them because we don't want to be a burden and apparently there have even been complaints in the past about enemies being too hard, which I've never agreed with.

Tyrex buddy I love you but admins are here to facilitate a positive player experience and when full auto .308 doesn't even stagger a basic OTF soldier it's kind of hard to have a positive player experience.

Nothing short of full on magdumps has proven consistently effective against OTF which has been true since THE HIVE when we had no armor and only SMGs, and since Pulse has been played as a weapon that no armor can stop, and OTF sometimes has absurd discord-voicechat coordination and superhuman endurance, speed, strength, and reaction time, it's hard for players to want to do ANYTHING but dodge and magdump. Because you won't let anything else work.

EDIT: If you don't want combat to consist of magdumps, maybe it's worth considering adjusting how you do combat encounters. Don't punish players for being in a group of less than 4 people, and don't just throw your special admin-enemies in the open with no cover and expect to not get magdumped for it. OTF are so tanky that it feels foolish and irresponsible to fight a SINGLE UNIT with less than 2 or 3 guns. WE don't enjoy magdumping you guys either, but you LITERALLY hold all the control here.

I don't understand how you could never agree with OTF being too hard. Not even when we only had SMGs and we were getting shoulder charged by OTF Shotgunners every engagement, when we had no armor? Not even when OTF were shrugging off consecutive headshots, grenades, full concentrated fire by multiple assault rifles without even stumbling?

You're either being intentionally dense or your priorities aren't in line with the rest of the playerbase.

I'll be honest, I know everyone loves their characters, but when we're expected to roll over and die from a bullet whizzing past us yet nobody on the rebel side gets even grazed from a mag-dump of a pulse rifle it's not fun. Every gunfight should be a risk, every bullet a chance at death. In the beginnings of the server up until the Commander's death, there was reconnaissance, intelligence gathering, planning, plotting, then execution. All to avoid the worst happening - and even then, it still did sometimes because combat is deadly. It feels now that the gang is just running towards an objective and hoping to outnumber them and that's about the extent of the planning and I honestly think it should be punished because that isn't realistic nor does it help with RP at all and instead feels like a rush to get through the AWS instead of enjoying it (to me).

To be one hundred percent honest with you I stopped doing scouting because I feel that Staff doesn't respect it.

Enemy numbers NEVER line up between the scouting and the actual event. Almost every single AWS event has "reinforcements" show up when it's narratively most convenient for staff's personal enjoyment and the rebels' collective detriment.

EDIT: The 626 scouting thing was fucking beautiful. I missed it but even seeing the AFTERMATH and being able to read other players' notes and know that it was actually real, workable intelligence made it valuable anyway.

The Noctis Relay we've made two attempts to scout out, and BOTH TIMES we are left with zero method of gaining intelligence without literally WALKING IN THERE and staring at shit. I literally had to have Lucas do a SOLO SNEAKING RUN to learn ANY information about the place because you guys were trying to terminate the scouting run before we even learned anything.

And then what happened? Oh, yeah, we're forced to go loud and multiple people get incapacitating injuries and Peterovich shows up.
EDIT: Player characters are coming to me and trying to get me to NOT go after the relay because they genuinely think it's suicidal and hopeless.

I LOVE having split-team approaches and diverse gameplans for AWS objectives.
But why should we honestly bother when you clearly prioritize "making it difficult" more than making it fun?
If every event is just going to be Karol flipping a coin to see whether or not he gets killed at point blank range by a pulse shotgun, why should we look for armor? Why should we upgrade guns? Why should we do ANYTHING but try to get lucky RPG hits from 200 meters out?

Expect a calmer and more elaborative post soon. But I had to respond to this post IMMEDIATELY.
Love you Tyrex sorry for disagreeing with you

 

[Smarmy]

I've heard some complaints about excessive bullet sponging. I think what I'll attempt to do it put down more enemies, but have them a lot easier to kill. Do people like that solution?

My concern is I was the only one sane enough to run 40-50 zombie hordes in ZRP. I would have groups of 20 people and be the only admin managing it. It made a lot of other admins burn out and not want to play.

I really don't want this to sound like this is an excuse. Frankly, I think I just have to suck it up it's my responsibility with my position. I just want to be clear it's really hard to play as 1-2 admins vs 15-20 people charging down an AWS.

Here's my solution, and it might not fit cleanly to HL2.

I REALLY! LOVED THE NEW ORLEANS GUARDS IN ZRP!

For those who didn't play ZRP towards the end of the server the players were planning a hit on a very large group of enemies who did them a LOT of wrongs. I'll try to find screenshots if I can, but essentially it was them setting up an ambush on 15-20 guys as like 4 and slaughtering all of them. After that they had a gunfight in the pitch black of night where I'd hide animated prop guys in all sorts of cool spots. I REALLY DONT WANT TO GO BACK TO ANIMATED PROP HELL! I ALSO GOT COMPLAINTS ABOUT THAT! Sometimes I think it'd be a nice change of pace.

Would you guys like to see this more frequently?

 

[pants]

I've heard some complaints about excessive bullet sponging. I think what I'll attempt to do it put down more enemies, but have them a lot easier to kill. Do people like that solution?

I'm fine with enemies being difficult to kill. But my problem is that most of the time it's done in this brainless elementary school way where OTF goes "nuh-uh! nuh-uh you don't hurt me!" until they get bored and let themselves die. I think it might genuinely just be that OTF aren't fun to fight against because even though we started this server by saying THEY AREN'T JUGGERNAUTS they're basically juggernauts.

They have no exploitable weakness. There's no fun in fighting against them. You get no loot, you can't let yourself be hit by anything other than a "grazing shot" or a killshot unless you really love MedRP.

I would rather have to find interesting ways to flank enemies, or cooperate to draw their attention away to enable another character to attack them. That sounds like it would be more fun for everybody. But it takes more effort than just "Bodypack holding! Shoots you with my pulse rifle".

My concern is I was the only one sane enough to run 40-50 zombie hordes in ZRP. I would have groups of 20 people and be the only admin managing it. It made a lot of other admins burn out and not want to play.

Zombies can be fun but my giant huge post is going to talk about weapon balance and S2K soon. This genuinely sounds horrible for you to go through and I am sorry you had to experience this.

I really don't want this to sound like this is an excuse. Frankly, I think I just have to suck it up it's my responsibility with my position. I just want to be clear it's really hard to play as 1-2 admins vs 15-20 people charging down an AWS.

I think maybe we need to fundamentally change how we look at the AWS then. Maybe limit the players who can go into it, or limit the amount of AWS events a character can do per map (could justify it ICly due to exhaustion or injuries, idk). Could also give players more story impact and opportunities for material progression OUTSIDE of the AWS to decrease the importance of the actual strikes.

Or, you know, you guys could just have more staff to share the load.

For those who didn't play ZRP towards the end of the server the players were planning a hit on a very large group of enemies who did them a LOT of wrongs. I'll try to find screenshots if I can, but essentially it was them setting up an ambush on 15-20 guys as like 4 and slaughtering all of them. After that they had a gunfight in the pitch black of night where I'd hide animated prop guys in all sorts of cool spots. I REALLY DONT WANT TO GO BACK TO ANIMATED PROP HELL! I ALSO GOT COMPLAINTS ABOUT THAT! Sometimes I think it'd be a nice change of pace.

Would you guys like to see this more frequently?

I wasn't on ZRP but I've only had positive experiences with animated props here. I enjoy them much more than having to fumble around with the unbalanced weapons in S2K lol.

I love you Smarmy thank you for listening and considering our feedback

 

[Smarmy]

Lastly, I've seen some issues regarding not getting enough ammo/guns.

I also see this occasionally floated by admins as well. I think the majority of the issue is it's very hard to tell what people want.

I know immediately I need to flood everyone with more ammo as opposed to ZRP where it was thematically appropriate to be bullet starved.

I'm going to make a dedicated effort to once a week come in playing a trader. At the 626 map it was frequent like every day or every other day, and its gradually decreased. I can't do it for everyone given how it's a very abuseable thing, but if you want to make a trader character feel free to approach me.

The issue I'm having is it's very hard to know what people want. Hopefully you can sympathize with this POV, but I can spawn literally anything whenever I want. It makes things very hard to know exactly what you'd like to be given. Given the setting it would make sense you have worse equipment in some context compared to OTF soldiers, but I also feel like we're not giving you enough to accomplish what you want. I was very fond of giving people LOTS of explosives for the 626 raid and it was honestly one of my favorite highlights as a result.

What equipment would you like to be given.


LASTLY!

In the planning discord I had ideas for incredibly dangerous high PK events that had high loot rewards. You would go into the event knowing it was incredibly lethal, and it balanced to that accord. I feel a good chunk of the bullet sponge issues can be solved if things are contextualized around everything being more lethal. I'm just not sure everyone is up for it! It's just simply not an issue if before hand everyone consents that this event might just actually kill you.

Are people interested in it? There's some rudimentary stuff for it listed in the PK rules I think.

 

[Smarmy]

Roster Post in thread 'HORIZON ROSTER'

May 13, 2025

HORIZON IS RECRUITING!

Please keep in mind I need to be incredibly selective. Last time I had 15 people apply and I could only take 4. I think I won't be this picky this time around on certain things that gatekept some people out. This squad matters a lot to me and I'd hate if it got a bad name.


DM me here or on Discord!​

• Smarmy

• 
• 
• 

I've opened Horizon recruiting!

I plan to reply to posts here when I get more time. I've been swarmed with a lot of suggestions over night and just now as people are waking up.

I hope you can be patient that I might not get to everyone in time. I really am happy you guys continue to play even if you find some pretty heavy flaws in here. It makes my day when I say goodnight in GOOC and everyone thanks me. There's no other community I'd be this happy.

 

[pants]

Lastly, I've seen some issues regarding not getting enough ammo/guns.

I also see this occasionally floated by admins as well. I think the majority of the issue is it's very hard to tell what people want.

I know immediately I need to flood everyone with more ammo as opposed to ZRP where it was thematically appropriate to be bullet starved.

I'm going to make a dedicated effort to once a week come in playing a trader. At the 626 map it was frequent like every day or every other day, and its gradually decreased. I can't do it for everyone given how it's a very abuseable thing, but if you want to make a trader character feel free to approach me.

I think we're in a tough spot right now with "Weapon Tiers" because the plot rushed us to fighting OTF like, immediately, which has powerscaled everything short of a KS-23, Bolt action rifle, or an assault rifle into just being "Shit Weapons For New Characters, Or Training Weapons".

...
Given the setting it would make sense you have worse equipment in some context compared to OTF soldiers, but I also feel like we're not giving you enough to accomplish what you want. I was very fond of giving people LOTS of explosives for the 626 raid and it was honestly one of my favorite highlights as a result.
...

I think we're in a tough spot right now with "Weapon Tiers" because the plot rushed us to fighting OTF like, immediately, which has powerscaled everything short of a KS-23, Bolt action rifle, or an assault rifle into just being "Shit Weapons For New Characters, Or Training Weapons".

Man I would love to have more access to grenades. Even if just smokes, flashes, hell, even TEAR GAS, which was only ever used to dogwalk Karol to my knowledge. Not even as KILLING tools, but just to aid in flushing targets out or providing temporary concealment to facilitate maneuvering. I think giving the players more options than Run And Shoot could also help admins feel less incentivized to bulletsponge. We could turn S2RP into a cover-based shooter or something lol

LASTLY!

In the planning discord I had ideas for incredibly dangerous high PK events that had high loot rewards. You would go into the event knowing it was incredibly lethal, and it balanced to that accord. I feel a good chunk of the bullet sponge issues can be solved if things are contextualized around everything being more lethal. I'm just not sure everyone is up for it! It's just simply not an issue if before hand everyone consents that this event might just actually kill you.

Are people interested in it? There's some rudimentary stuff for it listed in the PK rules I think.

Fuck yes I would love this. I want to be able to experience a PK finally. The Cowboy is going to roll the dice baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mickee]

Expect an in depth thread to be posted for what will be added post SFS. This SFS will give me time to work script side and my staff to aid in helping server.

I will post a snippet but there will be a secondary supporting faction added to build off of what @NaughtyNick brought up earlier. This faction will be opposing forces towards the Rebels and will make the AWS point feel more fluid and allow for it to be taken back.

This is something I claimed Conscripts would take ahold of…But I failed with Conscripts. These guys will be player controlled entirely. Applications for this secondary faction will be posted once the SFS launches so keep an eye out for that.

Also I did partly add the new OTF units simply because it adds variety. Instead of 20 Grunts you can have a singular Wallhammer or Support. Quick to kill Grenadiers offer some mix up too. I did notice we’ve been tanking but that’s partly due to us just wanting to provide a challenge and keep things interesting.


Also going to be changing the economy so traders hold substance and adding loot points for junk and other stuff. I’ve been working on making categories for items so that beneath items you can see such things as Junk, Crafting, Firearm, Melee, Clothing, etc. We have been a bit radio silent because we’re prepping for BIG things for you guys…There’s a reason we’ve been in a forest a bit too as we’re working our way up to the massive C98 Urban War. Enjoy your trees and birds while you can.


As I said earlier further in-depth post will be made soon.

 

[yoursteamfriend.royce]

I'm going to be honest as someone who regularly has played the opposition as OTF since the start of the server: I don't understand what you all mean by bullet sponge enemies. I've consistently rpd my soldiers dropping after one or two emotes and afaik the rebels have won every encounter they've gotten into except for the noctis relay recently. I'm not saying this to discount anything said here but my experience is not lining up with what is being said here and I've consistently been on the opposing force since day one and have gone out of my way to reel myself away from injuring other characters or being too bullet spongy so I'm genuinely confused.

Again this isn't to discount anything said here just personally i feel like I haven't been doing what is being portrayed here.

There are talks of implementing things that may be more up everyones alley, in fact more than talks but plans. I wish that these things were brought up to us prior because as far as wanting more open communication goes - we aren't mind readers. We are more than happy to be approached about things but I'd prefer they be handled before lighting the powder keg. The iteration is nearing the end of season one and I ensure all of you that we are aware of the issues presented and have been working to fix them for season 2.

 

[pants]

I'm going to be honest as someone who regularly has played the opposition as OTF since the start of the server: I don't understand what you all mean by bullet sponge enemies. I've consistently rpd my soldiers dropping after one or two emotes and afaik the rebels have won every encounter they've gotten into except for the noctis relay recently. I'm not saying this to discount anything said here but my experience is not lining up with what is being said here and I've consistently been on the opposing force since day one and have gone out of my way to reel myself away from injuring other characters or being too bullet spongy so I'm genuinely confused.

I'm not trying to play the blame game.

Even if every single individual admin comes out one by one and says "well, I didn't do it!" it still happened and there's at least half a dozen regular loyal players who have noticed it and voiced complaints to me about it.

It's a problem that we can fix and make both parties happy. You guys don't like boring magdumps, we don't like feeling forced to do boring magdumps. Let's find a way to make it more interesting.

 

[Eorvek]

I appreciate you bringing this to my attention. I will admit I've been somewhat neglectful with the faction. I do want to confirm that I am trying to make changes. They should come after the SFS. You're welcome to offer ideas here or anywhere else. The same goes for anyone else.

I think my overall mistake was I was hyper paranoid people would dislike the faction or relate it to really annoying intelligence squads. By the time I figured out these issues people lost steam in the idea.

I reach out to every new GM saying they're welcome to run ideas by me. I know I sent you the same message. I also give great liberty to them to run their ideas. There is a culture where even as super admin I run my ideas by other admins, and sometimes players. My concern with Rotfront is that I wasn't told anything about it. I still have little to no idea what your long term goals are. That is why I was very hesitant. It's hard to know if it would fit well. In the Horizon group chat I've even asked for ideas or help and gotten little to nothing. I don't want to make any excessive hostility but I feel like this could have been avoided by reaching out.

 

I do want to make it clear I offered you a promotion in DMs and you accepted it. I want to make it clear I had tangentially come to a similar idea at roughly the same time. I did my best to include your feedback and that's why you got to name the squad. I let you as a means to thank you for letting me bounce ideas off of you. I want to be clear I did a lot of work myself and completely by myself. I gave it to the rest of staff for extensive feedback and even asked you for some too. You're welcome to ask for it at any time, and I'll even post the document publicly if there's enough concerns.

I'll post my plans of what I do to change things once I have appropriate time to think it through thoroughly.

If you have further concerns let me know here or in DMs.

In all honesty I'm more than happy to help with the faction if you want the assistance. Because again I really wanna see things succeed, I don't want ideas to fall apart or breed bitterness between peeps.

To explain my frustration a lil more it definitely did feel like the faction was kinda held back with an arm behind its back. Like the simple caveat of it not being intel should've been enough and we would've been going hard on being evil guysw so Rebs wouldn't have to fight Overwatch all the time. But again this can be handled with a proper replan and gameplan for the faction, rather than an adlibbed situation like what kinda happened.

 

[Eorvek]

I'm not trying to play the blame game.

Even if every single individual admin comes out one by one and says "well, I didn't do it!" it still happened and there's at least half a dozen regular loyal players who have noticed it and voiced complaints to me about it.

It's a problem that we can fix and make both parties happy. You guys don't like boring magdumps, we don't like feeling forced to do boring magdumps. Let's find a way to make it more interesting.

To second this.

I don't personally view this as the fault of any one person, nor as staff being complacent. Shit happens. But it's good to get this kinda hammered out so shit happens less.

Namely, let's be real here there should be some common sense on how guns feel on peeps. Like if a sniper or heavy rifle (like a bolt action rifle, FAL or PKM for example) hits you, even if you survive the hit that should be tossing you around. Spice things up. Etiquette should be more than "how many shots do you take", it should be more "how do we make this fun for ourselves and others." It's doable, not perfectly, but it is very doable. Dialogue of pain, emotes of gory disabilities (like an arm or leg being ripped off of a soldier but it's still kicking) would go MILES alone.

Basically nobody wants to be in the firefight where 5+ rebs are magdumping a big guy just for the big guy to soak it up. Don't get me wrong I understand tanking things should definitely be in the arsenal if you're going against a large group, but do something to make the rebs feel like they're contributing to the fight. Like emoting stumbling or being thrown off. Something to involve strategy.

Again this isn't gonna be a fixall, but it certainly helps. I've had experience on conducting etiquette in factions like Penrose back on TnB. People were always encouraged to give me feedback whenever we conducted a fight, and I typically got positive feedback just from how entertaining/horrific they were to fight.

 

[Zardoz]

I'm going to be honest as someone who regularly has played the opposition as OTF since the start of the server: I don't understand what you all mean by bullet sponge enemies. I've consistently rpd my soldiers dropping after one or two emotes and afaik the rebels have won every encounter they've gotten into except for the noctis relay recently.

Again this isn't to discount anything said here just personally i feel like I haven't been doing what is being portrayed here.

I think with the whole bullet sponge thing Royce it is more of a general observation of OTF. I cannot recall getting into any encounters with your soldiers but there are instances with others (I do not know who) where I felt their portrayal and scaling was off.

--- Heads up for Overwatch players in general (not directed at you Royce dw) ---

There has been a lot of Overwatch soldiers in my experience playing alongside them and fighting against them who have been fair in taking and receiving in combat situations. I have however had my fair share of encounters with spongy soldiers. Two encounters I had on Sam exemplifies this, were one soldier was an Elite and the other was a standard trooper.

The Elite my guy stumbled upon in Pripyat had been portrayed as this robotic Terminator tank that could and I say this without hyperbole, withstand a direct mag dump to the chest and still keep going. It seemed more like a difference in interpretation rather than the admin trying to get one over my guy but it was still pretty off even going by the games. Sometimes I understand if someone is trying to play up the big bad, but to the guy's credit they eventually relinquished aware of that it is not fun to die to something you have by rights blasted to Kingdom Come under normal circumstances.

The other encounter at the bunker on rp_mesz which led to Sam's death was a soldier running towards my guy at short range which I shot at point blank in the head with my pistol. Even if a handgun is not super powerful, I probably would have nailed them in the head or at least shot them several times around the neck. The soldier's helmet somehow saved them despite being shot and they kept going to gun him down mercilessly. At that point I thought if they really wanted to kill him for making the mistake of just existing in that corridor then I was not going to bother arguing, so I took the PK to make the encounter at least memorable and not lame.

Both encounters involved bullet sponging event characters, but one recognized the circumstances for the situation and the consequences for dragging out the fight. The other really just wanted to win the fight for the sake of it, rather than give an actual character a cool moment or an encounter to remember. I am not really mad with bullet sponging but there are times where it can be (potentially with justification) permissible and other situations where people fail to read the room. It is not fun for players who have actual characters that exist outside events to get punished for taking risks when they have acted appropriately in fighting off threats. It is not fun for the volunteers who deep down dislike amping up their tankiness to remain effective in a combat situation.

Do not be afraid of NLRs, it is more fun getting a fresh start back in the fight than being pummelled relentlessly by an infinite wave of rebels. As an OTF player myself I have always just NLR'd, yeah everyone knows they shot 900 for the 4th time in a row but the uniform nature of the soldiers make them great stand-ins when you need to emphasize a bigger force than portrayed. Players will give you guys far more respect for taking hits and that will encourage others to likely do the same. The whole combat etiquette thing largely stems from this lack of give and take, and I think the lack of an active Combine player faction such as the CCA only leads to more reliance on this type of behaviour.

TL;DR - 50/50 case of OTA being bullet sponges, while fighting off hordes of rebels is not ideal, NLRing should be the standard for OTF and not every encounter needs to be the end of the world. Players will respect those who fight fairly and taking more hits (not sponging but actually getting hurt/killed) will set a good precedent in fights for others to follow.

Final note: In agreeance with Nick and Eorvek's suggestions, it is important to get players involved with actual leadership. Not because they are just players but people who will be active and willing to lead others. HORIZON's biggest mistake imo was needing admin permission to flag on, which itself really feels counter-intuitive to having an active player faction. It also probably explains why those who had influence in its creation have scarcely had an opportunity to even play let alone climb up the ranks.

 

[Smarmy]

Final note: In agreeance with Nick and Eorvek's suggestions, it is important to get players involved with actual leadership. Not because they are just players but people who will be active and willing to lead others. HORIZON's biggest mistake imo was needing admin permission to flag on, which itself really feels counter-intuitive to having an active player faction. It also probably explains why those who had influence in its creation have scarcely had an opportunity to even play let alone climb up the ranks.

Just to make things clear I did take your suggestion on that. The rule hasn't existed for some time.

I intend to add some non staff into the decision making for it. That's my biggest mistake honestly. I was too afraid of it being seen like an annoying intel squad and over controlled it. It's become very clear I need to loosen it up.